Transgenderism: Discussion. !Sensitive content!

So I was browsing YouTube and found this video. I watched it, and I kinda agree with the things she says.
It may be sensitive content for transgender people, so yeah, just warning.


I would encourage to watch it completely before engaging in discussion, but it’s up to you.

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I may watch it fully by tonight and give my opinions on it when I have, but just from the title I can already say… It’s not that simple >.<

The scientific consesus at the moment seems to indicate that it’s not as clear-cut as that. And also people with mental illnesses deserve to keep their basic human rights >.> Because everyone does.

I’m definitely gonna come back to this to watch the video though, and I’ll see what I think afterward :smile:

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That’s is not what she means with the things she’s saying, but yeah, I will wait for a response xD

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I didn’t think so, we need to bait clicks a little these days xD

I’ll back for it later, I promise :heavy_heart_exclamation:

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I am typing my thoughts as I watch this. However, in the first thing it’s “Tradition. Family. Prosperity” so I already know I will probably have a problem as I don’t like tradition when it’s being presented as the only way because speaking traditionally, women, minorities, and lgbtq ppl are usually thought of as less than and deserving of different treatment. But I will try to keep an open mind.

Ok, first of all, I’d argue with the assertion that kids are being “indoctrinated” with a transgender ideology. While some may view LGBTQIA identities as somewhat “trendy” they face unspeakable violence and hate in many countries, even “developed” countries. I’d counter with the assertion that traditionally, kids are being indoctrinated with a gender-rigid world where boys do this and girls do that. It’s changing, but slowly. Personally, as a femme-presenting girl I fucking hated it when stupid guys thought they were smarter than me just because most men are brought up with almost unshakable belief in their inherent value while I was inundated with media images that told me my value was how good I looked in a swimsuit. Anyway, I don’t agree with this first thing she says because it’s an iteration on the gay agenda scare. Sure, now people know what being transgender is, but honestly, it’s been a part of different cultures forever, it’s now just a part of the mainstream vocabulary. And sure, adolescence is tough so you may question things a lot then but this lady seems to just be arguing for traditional gender roles, which again using the traditional definition of traditional, suck ass.

Personally, I’ve questioned myself but I’ve found that I just hate being associated with the shitty aspects of “traditional” femininity (being an airhead/dumb, being emotional/crazy, being weak) so I’m not so much anything as I am fed up with there being one right way to be a woman/person/human being. If we stopped using the term “gender” altogether and just used the medically recognized “sex” (as my woke doctor friends do), that would also be cool. Gender to me is a concept and an outdated one at that. Yes, M/F anatomy is different but there’s not just one model for that either.

I don’t want to lose my progress (and I’m like a minute in) and I can tell I will have some opinions already, so I will just post this so far.

(Also, I think the video is queued up to 6:45 or so so I had to rewind to get through and it’s hard toggling on my phone and back.)

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Going to pause and watch the rest later.

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Wait? But what’s the question :thinking:

but omg “leader of the skinheads of pediatricians” :joy:

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Just discussion on the content of the video.

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America never really hs any decent sex education since the beginning so her whole experience just sounds like an unrelated side effect that seems more sensitive because of the times we live in.

For whatever reason, the guys who put together school curriculums always just… skip over sex education.

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It doesn’t have to either this or that. We may preach tolerance and acceptance without explaining complicated social let’s say constructs to kids, who gets confused about their sexuality and other things. We can teach them being kind etc. with other ways. Have you seen shows like kids queer stuff, that Desmond boy who’s a drag and performing for adults? This is legit child abuse, going under “tolerance acceptance” flag. I saw the LGBTQ+ thread on official forums, where teens ask “what is my label?” “am I this or that, if I feel this and that?”. This is horrifying to me tbh. They are getting too much into this really complicated stuff at the age, where everything makes a big impact on their personality.

I really think it’s not about this. People have stereotypes, some more, some less. I actually never had this problem, because here where I live or let’s say at my school/high school, girls were on top of classes mostly, while boys were really behind, not only in math or physics but in the sport too, until some point.

Well, that’s the key. I don’t really want to talk about her point of the traditional family, because I still have mixed thoughts about it, but it doesn’t take away the legitimacy of the whole non-binary thing being absurd to me, or I’d say the normalization of mental illness.
I don’t mean that transgender people don’t deserve human rights. We all do regardless of what we are, or think we are. But I’m against pushing it like it’s a perfectly normal thing to be there, based on feelings solely.

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Me waiting for shannii to reply with a massive comment

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Part 1

I’m going to comment as I go along. I’ll try my best not to paraphrase or misrepresent her argument!

I think she’s wildly misrepresenting what exactly trans ideology is. For one, that’s the most basic definition or an “introductory” explanation of what transgenderism is. In reality, it’s better described as a hormone imbalance which causes the chemical makeup of someone’s brain to more closely match the average chemical makeup of the gender they identify with than the gender they were assigned at birth.

Now, this causes some serious complications because, for one, you’re assigned a gender at birth. Sex and gender are simply not the same thing, by dictionary definition. Gender is a social construct. That’s just the truth. In a social setting, you don’t tell if someone’s a woman or a man by their chromosomes or by looking at their genitals. We do it by the way they look, the way they act, the way they “perform”. So a lot of the disparity, as far as I’ve researched, comes from the way they’re treated jarring with the way they feel (thanks to the chemical imbalance).

However, there is no such thing as a “male brain” or a “female brain”. That again is an oversimplification. There are only vague correlations between biological sex and the chemical makeup of the brain – correlations which are proven to not be 100% foolproof by the mere fact that trans people exist whose brains don’t “match” the chemical makeup typical of their biological sex.

I also disagree with the idea that children are being indoctrinated with this. It’s scaremongering – especially in the USA where there’s barely any sex education as it is, let alone gender education or sex education aimed at same-sex relationships. Let’s forget the fact that it’s not child abuse to tell a child that there are people out there who feel that they don’t match the social standing they were given by the way they were born. Let’s focus on the fact that this indoctrination just simply isn’t happening. Schools aren’t teaching children that they can be born in the wrong body. And transgenderism really isn’t as simple as that anyway.

Her comments on how this is child abuse are simply wrong. I mean, even if she’s under the assumption that a woman can’t become a man or a man can’t become a woman, children are told many untruths over the course of their young lives. Santa. The tooth fairy. The Easter bunny. But none of these things are considered child abuse. It doesn’t impair their ability to understand reality. And I’m working under the assumption that people whose sex and gender don’t match don’t exist! They do, so clearly telling children that wouldn’t be child abuse by her own logic, because you’re teaching them about the real world. You’re teaching them about reality.

Now, the anecdote about the children in the school finding out about Joey has a lot of issues. I’m going to take this as a real story since I have no reason to believe otherwise. However, this clearly shows me that the teacher didn’t engage with the idea of gender properly. Putting on a dress doesn’t automatically make you a girl. There’s a lot more to being a girl than wearing dresses and you don’t stop being a girl as soon as you wear jeans. The problem here is clearly a failure on the teacher’s part to explain the issue properly.

But that’s beside the point. To be honest, I don’t think children at such a young age should be taught about any sort of gender ideology – whether trans or cis. Three, four or five year olds just don’t have the level of criticial thinking to be able to understand the difference between sex and gender. In fact, loads of adults don’t understand it. She doesn’t seem to since she keeps using the two terms interchangeably.

She’s throwing around a lot of buzz words! She hasn’t explained how telling children that sex and gender don’t necessarily match is gaslighting. She needs to explain these things instead of just throwing them around. Otherwise, it’s an appeal to people’s emotions rather than logic. Gaslighting is when you manipulate someone into doubting their own sanity. Children are just getting their own sense of reality and you’re helping them along the way as a parent. With regards to the topic of gender, you’re teaching them something new. So it’s not causing them to question any sanity. The cannot associate their sanity with a topic that they don’t know or understand yet. And with regards to the difference between sex and gender? Well they can’t see that difference. And if you spend the time making the difference clear and telling them the truth in the first place, they’ll find that nothing you’ve taught them goes against reality.

And even if it wasn’t true (which it is), telling a child something false isn’t abuse. Unless, of course, we want to start saying that telling children Santa exists is gaslighting.

But the big issue for me so far is that she’s working from the assumption that transgender people are lying or wrong or stupid or something. She’s working from that assumption without telling us why she thinks that first. You see, if she understood the difference between sex and gender, she wouldn’t be able to make these arguments. You can’t lie to a child when you’re telling them the truth. So first of all she needs to tell us why she thinks that trans ideology is a lie before she can convincingly, logically, and sensically say why telling your children about it is wrong.

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Part 2

She’s working under the assumption that every single child who finds out about transgenderism is going to want to transition. In fact, there is little to prove that. As far as research has gone so far, even children with trans parents have a much higher likelihood of being cisgender than trans. So why would every single child suddenly start questioning their gender simply because they’re told that some people do?

It’s not a sex change. It’s gender realignment. This is the reason we stopped calling trans people “transsexuals”. Because we realised and researched into the difference between sex and gender more.

But don’t get me wrong: I disagree with gender realignment being done at such a young age. I wish there was a way for the realignment to not have such massive repercussions upon the body. However, as it stands, children do not have the required critical thinking skills and teenagers are extremely impulsive. I believe gender realignment surgeries and hormone therapy should be limited to adulthood when the person has had the time to truly consider and weigh up on the risks and gains as a reasonable adult.

Until adulthood, I believe therapy is an essential aspect of the transition – a chance for children to talk through their gender dysphoria with a specialist who understands gender dysphoria and will neither encourage nor condemn gender realignment surgery. I think teenagers should be encouraged to explore the possibilities when they feel dysphoria and told of all the options – including telling them that they don’t need to be a woman to associate with the usual gender expectations. I think we need to break down the gender barrier and realise that the social construct is very restrictive. If they still feel dysphoria after talking it all through, who are we to tell people what to do with their own body?

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Part 3

We’ve already said that she’s throwing around buzzwords like “gaslighting” without backing them up. She’s also making a huge logical leap between exploring transgender ideology with children (who are old enough to understand what gender even is) and legalising gender realignment for teenagers. There is a middle ground. You can tell people that trans people exist, that they should be called by the name and pronoun they identify with and that it is a difficult, well thought-out decision that adults make when the feel upset and discomfort with their social standing and/or body. You can also tell them that they’d need to wait for this and truly think about it.

You see, there’s a lot of repercussions that come with transition. A 6 year old exploring with gender is a long way from getting a castration or hormones. And if they don’t experience dysphoria, the exploration is going to get very old very soon. They’d have no reason to affect their body in any way if they don’t feel dysphoria. They’d have no reason to go through all of that pain.

This is also working under the assumption that everyone who’s dysphoric about their gender is going to use medicine or surgery. Some people are comfortable with dressing differently and asking people to refer to them by different pronouns. It depends on how strong the dysphoria really is! Trans people don’t just pop up as soon as you say the words “gender is a social construct”. If a child isn’t dysphoric, they’re not going to get much from transitioning or even considering it. If all children explore gender, there’s a high likelihood that they’ll come out the other side more cis than ever!

And if transgenderism really was a mental illness like she seems to think it is (as opposed to the hormone brain thing I spoke about in Part 1), then why would telling children that sex and gender match up automatically make them mentally ill anyway? This is where the term “gaslighting” comes in. It seems as though she’s working backwards from the assumption that transgenderism is a mental illness and deciding that informing children about trans ideology is abuse from there. That’s the wrong way to do this when she cannot, nor does she try to, prove in any way that telling a child about transgender people is abuse.

You see, confusion doesn’t cause mental illness – even if the children were confused. And transgenderism isn’t schizophrenia. Trans people don’t have any problems telling what’s real and what isn’t. At least, unless you’re talking about some outsider telling them that their experiences aren’t real and then deciding that they’re mentally ill because of their own misunderstanding between gender and sex.

A child can easily and fairly understand that trans people exist and they’re 100% real and then get told they’d have to wait until they were 18 to make the decision. We’re not going to mention the fact that choosing to have surgery as a teenager isn’t child abuse. I chose to have my adenoids taken out as a teenager because they were affecting my ability to sing well. That’s not abuse.

I’ll do some more later. Right now, my fingers are getting tired from all the typing.

Personal note: continue from 5:59

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Yeah, I think explaining complicated subjects to kids in general needs to be improve. However, not talking about it isn’t the answer to me.

No, I haven’t seen it so can’t really judge.

Yeah, but there were always questions of what labels suited kids. Humans have a need to classify things which can be quite annoying at any age. Kids try on different personalities. I had like 5-10 different personalities depending on what I was trying that year. Like listening to different music, hanging out with a different group, etc. I don’t think it’s harmful to try to fit in with the LGTBQIA community since one of the labels is literally questioning. People should self-examine more, not less.

True, I made it about myself. But I think culture contributes to those stereotypes a lot and they are unavoidable.

The irony was this was true at my school too but dudes still thought they were better…

Eh, non-binary was absurd to me but then I realized it just didn’t apply to me. I don’t think it’s a mental illness at all so that’s I think where we differ quite strongly. Side note: lesbianism was classified as a mental illness back in the day so this may be another thing that’s not looked at kindly in the future.

Sure, maybe not on feelings solely but I think she’s spouting so pseudoscience and successfully passing it off as science. This has been a tactic used throughout time to oppress people (pseudosciences of craniotomy, the word hysterical comes from the Latin word for uterus, etc) and I personally think this woman is doing the same thing…

(Edited because I posted too soon)

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I haven’t seen the video yet, so can’t really comment on that, however I will state my opinion on “labels”
I think that the world has gone label mad these days, and are so fast to stick one on someone, that even if they don’t fit it, they will wear it.
Since when has there been a time to label a child. Other than to label it as the one purest and most perfect label… they are a child why say more?

There are parents who are actively seeking confirmation in this world, that their child is transgender. WHY?! Let your kid, be a kid. Let that child grow out of childhood and choose their path and their life themselves.
Soon a little girl who hates pink, wears jeans and loves cars (kinda describing myself here apart from the little girl part obvs :joy:) these girls will be labeled as transgender because they don’t fit someone else’s ideals of what a girl is supposed to be.
We are all individuals and only the one person who is feeling it, can decide who they are. To push children into labels will affect their entire lives. It’s pretty close to brainwashing in some instances. Telling them who they are, what they are, how they feel, how they should feel. Nowadays there are even more people claiming to be a different sexuality etc, sometimes (for people who aren’t genuinely a person of different sexuality) it’s because it’s a trend that some people will jump in on for attention, other times it’s where that person has been unsure and thrown a label to wear.
Who’s to say that a young kid, a boy for example, might one day try on his moms shoes as a toddler and totter around in them saying “Mommy I’m a girl.” and then be taken seriously, given the transgender label, and then grow up and be a typical boy who feels confused and not comfortable as who he is because he has been harmfully labelled.
People feel different things, say different things etc, but nowadays even the most innocent cases can be spun out of control.
I saw labels being given out on the official forums, I think it’s just too much. There are people saying they are confused because they feel attracted to people of the same sex, and people are calling them bicurious or bisexual or asexual… I have a different label… You’re fucking normal Lots of people are attracted to people of the same sex, sometimes it means something, sometimes it doesn’t, some people will find that it’s a part of their lives others will develop out of it. There’s a lot of harm in what others label someone as. As soon as that label exists, there’s the need to feel pushed to conform to it.

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Yesssssssss! Too many labels!!! There’s always so much pressure to fit in when you’re young and later you realize that crap doesn’t matter. Friends like it when you’re genuinely yourself and not trying to conform to something else.

I’d agree that there are probably some ultra-liberal parents who may take things to far, so not labeling things so rigidly is a skill that has to be practiced at all ages.

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It’s not even just friends liking you for being yourself. You should be able to love yourself for it too. Feeling comfortable and happy as who you are. A world with less labels would be a much better place.

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For sure, we try to make neat little boxes to explain ourselves to others but also to ourselves. But it’s very silly since people are more than the sum of their parts. Removing labels can be freeing!

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Screw removing them, just don’t apply them. I mean at the end of the day would you label yourself if it wasn’t for having to explain it to someone else?

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