Ok, i really wanted to talk about this. It’s a comparisson between heroes and villains in movies.
Why I prefer Darth Vader more than Yoda (spoilers)
First of all, we know Anakin’s whole backstory and why he turned to the dark side, in other words became a villain. Anakin went through a lot of bad things, for example, he was a slave on Tatooine, he was separated from his mother, most jedi didn’t want him to be trained a jedi because Yoda and Mace windu thought ‘ooo he is gonna turn back’ and had complex with him. He watched his mother die, the other jedi didn’t appreciate him much (except Obi-wan who is the best among all jedi) and he was scared that his wife would die since the jedi didn’t help he asked chancellor palpatine for help but they were all lies which led him to the dark side. Why i think Yoda is a mary-sue
Well, simply because we know nothing about him, where he comes from, it just shows how powerful and wise he is, he is just the oldest and most powerful jedi, without showing how (i guess it will remain a mystery but he is a mary-sue)
So what do you think about this? Reply below with your opinions
I have a couple of opinions on this. First and foremost that Yoda isn’t a Mary Sue, unfortunately. He is very powerful, and very experienced, but that’s insinuated to have come from age, the films do the thing films are supposed to do, they show us what he’s capable of and who he is without needing to explain how he got to that point.
And the other reason he isn’t a Mary Sue is a follow up to that previous point. He isn’t the main character. Films would be very bad if they went into exhaustive detail explaining how each character got to the points they are at. Most of all it just wouldn’t be interesting. The most interesting part of Yoda’s life is what we see. It’s also why we don’t see Anakin’s training with Obi-Wan. Why do you want to see the less interesting parts of a characters life? A side-character no less.
See, Yoda also isn’t the hero of Star Wars. In the prequel trilogy, Obi-Wan is the hero. Anakin is the villain. But Anakin is the protagonist, whereas Obi-Wan for the most part is the antagonist. Although you could make the argument that the Jedi order in general are the antagonists. This gets flipped when Anakin becomes the antagonist in the original trilogy. It’s quite interesting, really, but Yoda has very little to do with it xD
Also I hate to bring this up, but you have to wherever Darth Vader is concerned. He’s pretty iredeemable. He murdered innocent people in his second film before his real fall to the Dark Side. And then in the third he killed kids.
I agree with Deluge. Mary-Sue isn’t a term synonymous with “undeveloped character” and it’s a good thing it isn’t! It would be exhausting if we had to go through every single character to find out their flaws, origins, thoughts, feelings, everything.
Mary-Sues are usually the main character, but you can have a secondary character who’s a Mary Sue. The main point, though, is that a Mary-Sue’s power and influence is undeserved. It’s not that the story isn’t about them so we don’t know where their power comes from. It’s that we know (or can guess at) the reason and it doesn’t feel deserved.
But even more than that, Mary-Sues get everything handed to them on a plate. They canbe as rude and mean to the people around them as they want and their actions would always be justified by the writer. Yoda isn’t a main character. He doesn’t get everything handed to him and he doesn’t do awful things that are justified by Lucas. He’s just powerful and unattainable.
And it makes sense! I mean, think about it: do you know the origins, back-stories and flaws of every single person in your life who seems strong, smart and powerful? I guarantee you don’t.
Protagonists are (usually) supposed to learn, grow and be challenged through the story. Of course, there are other types of character arcs, but they’re usually very different. A character becomes a Mary-Sue when they should be learning and growing through the narrative but they don’t. They’re portrayed as beyond that. Perfect. And that’s unrelatable.
Mary-Sues are usually protagonists because it’s the protagonist that we need to see become a better person. We need them to be wrong, to be challenged and to grow. They’re supposed to be the person we root for! So when they lack any internal growth, it is frustrating, disconcerting and downright boring.
Whereas Yoda’s character arc has probably happened long before the start of Star Wars. He’s at the end of his own growth arc. If the story was about him and he was this powerful and lacked flaws (because you can have a main character who isn’t a Mary-Sue but has limitless power. I recommend reading Skulduggery Pleasant), then he would be a Mary-Sue.
But calling Yoda a Mary-Sue is the same as looking at the hero of a story 20 years after they learned the lessons they needed to learn, beat the bad guy and “lived happily ever after” and calling them a Mary Sue.
Yoda’s purpose in the story isn’t to be relatable or to learn or grow. He’s there to be a teacher. And teachers are supposed to be better than their students. It’s only natural that he is viewed by the protagonist – and then by extension us as an audience – as flawless. We don’t have any reason to know about his flaws or struggles.
And in Revenge of the Sith we get a full view of Yoda’s massive flaws when he arrogantly challenges Sidious and gets his little green @ss handed to him
Yes l feel like the hero plays the victim in most movies and is just an innocent hero trying to save the world and the villain is there to ruin it. So here is a a question. Why are most villains ‘villains’? What made them become villains?
But I think that good guys can be really irritating depending on what kind of good guy they are. For example, Captain America annoys the hell out of me but Iron Man amuses me. Spiderman is different to both of these guys but I still prefer him to Captain America.
So now let’s look at villains. They also irritate the crap out of me. With the exception of the joker, green goblin and loki. They are pretty much different to each other in terms of overall goals and objectives. But none of them annoy me.
So I don’t tend to differentiate between heros and villains as though we are supposed to like them or not like them. I just go with whoever irritates me the least.
Protagonist is the character from where the story is told!
Antagonist is the hindering character who acts as a wall for the protagonist. Hero is the character who is framed as morally just, the one you should root for. Villain is morally in the wrong, the one to root against.
That gets foggy with tragic/anti heroes and stuff but those are the basics
