Yeah, I agree with your point of view but I definitely can understand how part of the society (especially a more traditional part) thinks like that. I agree it has to change, and I guess the way it is right now is alright since it even fits the story better why they would look like this. Even tho I still read people who continue to be against it cause the hairstyle didn’t change… So I feel like people will still continue to find some point to be against them and keep protesting
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Well I can understand why people might get upset about the hairstyle since it has nothing to do with the new narrative of the chimney though…
But I do understand that some people may want to preserve the tradition for tradition’s sake because it has a lot of meaning for them since they grew up with it, but it seems to me, there’s enough reasons to change it and it seems like it’s on the right path to changing with the chimney stuff (even though that might not satisfy everyone).
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I agree it’s definitely on the right path…
But my point is people will still find a reason to complain, I mean even if they would just keep there normal hairstyle not wear a black curly hair I feel like there still is a group of people who will keep complaining cause of the history of the character and that it should be completely removed or something like that, I heard a few people going that far already and at that point I am really gonna disagree with them.
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Yeah, there will always be people who disagree but I think coming to a good compromise, or at least seeing their point of view, is healthy.
I think shutting down disagreement just because you can’t make everyone happy isn’t productive (but I don’t think you are doing this at all). It’s great that you’re thinking about these kind of things are trying to learn about the unsavory history that every former colonizing country has.
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I will be honest, I didn’t think much about it and was one of those unknowing people until I basically came to the episode forums where I first got in touch with people with a darker skin tone (yes it sounds pretty messed up but I don’t know anyone personally irl), but then I slowly learned things. I think on this specific topic I can relate to both sides, yeah I was raised with the fully black version and personally don’t have any problems with it, but if I see other people have problems with it for valid reasons I am more than willing to listen to that and agree with possible changes that have to be made and that voice cannot be ignored.
But like in every topic there are always people who are on the extreme side, and rarely I agree with those people. I feel like compromising is the key and I feel like the current roetveeg pieten are a perfect compromise, and I just kinda want this childish discussion in the Netherlands to stop cause people just aren’t listening to what others say and there’s no proper argument on either side.
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They go through the chimney… It has nothing to do with race. Case closed.
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^
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Just a blabbering. Until it is really connected, there is nothing to discuss, unless you like discussing for the sake of discussing. Sorry, I’m just sick of everything leading to racism nowadays.
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Institutionalized and normalised racism for years does make everything lead back to racism though. Addressing racism is the only way we’ll get rid of it.
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I respectfully disagree. The way we stop racism, is by stopping labeling everything in accordance to race.
And please, for the love of gawd, define institutionalized racism.
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Okay. I just wanted to make sure you knew the facts before making a point if that makes sense, so that’s why I quoted that message, didn’t know how much you read of it…
Interesting point of view tho, I kinda agree with it as in sometimes it just goes too far and people say something is discrimination without it actually being discrimination. I am not sure how I feel about it in relation to this specific matter tho.
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It’s not that we need to stop connecting everything to race. It’s just that we need to stop having biases and treating others awfully because of it.
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Acknowledging someone’s race isn’t a bad thing. It’s just how you react and interpret it that becomes the issue.
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“Institutional racism (also known as systemic racism) is a form of racism expressed in the practice of social and political institutions. It is reflected in disparities regarding wealth, income, criminal justice, employment, housing, health care, political power and education, among other factors.”
Disagree. If you combine the institutionalized racism definition and a time span of say, a few hundred years then racism becomes perceived as normal so to the majority it’s “making everything about race” when in reality it’s something POC have been dealing with a long time. I understand your point of view though.
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See that’s the thing. We wouldn’t “make everything about race” if people didn’t have to have that same energy with us: excluding, killing us, etc.
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please name a couple of policies that discriminate specific race.
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I don’t think I fully agree with any of you.
Yeah we definitely put things down to race way too much and make things about race when they shouldn’t be.
And my reaction when I saw this was “that’s unfortunate” because it was never meant to be blackface and I don’t think people should have to drop traditions just because idiot Americans made them racist. The whole world isn’t America and we don’t do the same things for the same reasons.
However that being said, if it makes no difference to the tradition for them to not be in full “black face” (and I think they look more like they’ve been up a chimney now), right wing snowflakes need to stop making such a big deal out of people being sensitive to the changing world around them
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Agree. I don’t want them to drop the tradition. It’s apart of their heritage after all.
This attitude is an issue though. It’s not about policies. It’s about the fact that the people enforcing those policies often have biases they put on top of them.
And of course the fact that some policies that don’t openly discriminate are there to be discriminatory because they were a cover back in the 60s to 80s for actual racist laws that couldn’t exist anymore.
Anyone who tries to claim that racists can’t get smart and hide their messages better is lying to themselves
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