Alright, I don’t think anyone besides Dutch people understand the name. I didn’t want to translate it since it’s not translatable… I am specifically looking for non Dutch opinions on the matter tho!
Here in the Netherlands we have a holiday called sinterklaas coming up at 5 December. It’s mainly for kids and they get gifts and you eat lots of good things… Anyway coming to the point, there are helpers who are basically blackfaced.
It’s a big discussion here in the Netherlands with people on our one side saying we shouldn’t have the Zwarte Piet (first picture) anymore because it is discrimination and stereotypical while others say it should be kept as in the first picture cause it’s tradition. Personally I don’t have a strong opinion on the matter I just don’t want the debate to ruin the holiday for kids like it did the last years…
I thought Zwarte Piet was a moor and that’s why they do the black paint? If he is supposed to based off of a dark-skinned POC then I definitely understand why people consider this blackface.
Also, I don’t think the chimney thing is valid. Going up a chimney may give you marks on your skin but it doesn’t give you a curlier hair texture and red lips
This is what my research as a non-Dutch person said as well. So it’s not just that he went down the chimney, but he’s a dark skinned person.
Agreed 100%.
Also doesn’t Zwarte Piet translate to “Black Pete” not like chimney Pete (Schoorsteen Piet)? According to the article I read here, the chimney stuff is a later attempt to try to get away from the more racist past of the character who was created while slavery was still legal in the Netherlands (and the US for that matter).
Personally, as a white person who is not Dutch, my opinion doesn’t matter a ton but I think that we should listen to people who it impacts, namely black and brown people in the Netherlands who seem to not support it.
Excuse me for not explaining enough about the origin of Zwarte Piet.
It is true that the Zwarte Piet isn’t just black of the chimney but their origin. It’s not sure what the actual origin of the character is, they could be Moor but there is no research that fully proves what the origin is.
I should have also added that they have a really helping role and are also called servants so that’s why some people connect it to slavery or something like that…
Again excuse me for not explaining everything enough.
I agree with this till a certain degree. Some people got extremely disrespectful with their protests and stuff like that and really ruined the whole celebration for kids. If you want to get respect and want something to change this is not the way you should do it, respect is still something you have to earn. Do it in the 11 months of the year where kids are not excited for it, but not ruin that one month for the kids. This is quite a big part of the reason why the anti zwarte piet community lost quite a bit of respect and it took this long before there are actually changes now this year. This is a discussion that has been going on for about 5 years now
I agree but you also need to look at the history of black face and how it effects them personally. Traditions like this is the main problem, making it become normalized and “okay” to mark others that have been insulted for years of their darker tone or just who they are.
I’m not saying they should be going hardcore with their protests but it’s understandable since no one esle really wants to pass this off as something awful just. Anger comes from ignoring.
Hmh, I totally agree with what you say. It’s almost like they make a joke out of people with a darker skin tone by making it look like that. But on the other hand I can also understand where the pro Zwarte Piet people come from, the origin of this goes back at least 150 years and now suddenly it isn’t okay and has to change? I mean I understand how that can trigger people as well, especially also thinking about the fact the history of our country definitely isn’t perfect with slavery and stuff and it’s just that people are unkowning about this cause we barely get any information about that, it’s as if that part of history is hidden while I think it’s important to also show the darker side of why we are a rich country now. Most people you would ask here see the VOC (Dutch East India Company) as something good and what made us rich and was a main part driver of the Golden Century. But they don’t know much about how big their involvement in slavery was.
Not to be that person but we grown as a society. You don’t need to get ride of the tradition but be more mindful on how you do it. Lynching wasn’t even illegal until recently. Racism and many other things were normalized. Of course it would have been seen as fine back then. This is now, the present and it needs to change.
There’s no denial. It’s 100% a representation of it.
Anger comes from ignoring.