I’m sure you guys have heard about what’s going on with Lia Thomas. Here we can talk about it. If you don’t know who she is, she’s a 22 year old transgender female that placed first in the National division one swim competition. Naturally, transphobes are outraged.
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Honestly, those people just need to shut their traps. Lia Thomas sounds like an amazing individual.
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From what I get, she’s super cool.
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And the other people are super lame.
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Uh huh. Shut up, Caitlyn Jenner.
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All the phobes are on my Shaming list now.
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This recap was really helpful.I had no idea about her. I think it’s great that she did so well!
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No clue who she is but…
YOU GO GURL
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I don’t know who this girl is but she do go to a college near me!
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That’s cool!
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puts thread on watching and waits for something I disagree with
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I think she is completely inspirational and amazing. However, I do see where the transphobes are coming from, to some extent.
Lots of sports for women are purposefully segregated because people who had a large influx of testosterone either during puberty or during ftm transition gain advantages in muscle density. When trans girls have traditionally competed in sports and people have expressed their concerns, the whole “but they didn’t go through male puberty and children of both genders pre-puberty can compete with each other because there are no natural advantages” thing was pushed.
I guess their concern here is her height and her muscle definition is a lot more than the average cis woman could ever possibly hope to achieve. Of course, there are exceptions to this. I’ve seen some pretty buff cis women. However, to completely ignore or dismiss their concerns would be naive. I do understand the worry that cis women will soon find it very hard to compete in certain sports or that T will be used as a “legal” (in sporting terms) alternative to steroids to get people to the top.
Do I think that justifies kicking trans women out of women’s sports or forcing them to compete with the opposite gender like they’re men? Not at all. I think that would be stupid, discriminatory and just evil.
How to solve this, then? Well, I think all sports should be like boxing/wrestling. I think people should be divided into weight/height classes rather than gender classes. I think that would keep it fair and encourage people of all body types and genders to compete. I could be wrong, though
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At the end of the day, she is over 6ft and quite muscular. How much of that can we attribute to her transition happening after puberty? Not a small amount.
I just want to clarify, though. Her coming out and transitioning after puberty is in no way her fault. There are many reasons why:
- She could not have realised until after puberty.
- It might not have been safe for her.
- She might not have had the financial or physical freedom to transition until after puberty.
However, puberty is very transformational. We shouldn’t discount it completely. I think that if we completely ignore or shut down arguments like this when they appear, we draw people into transphobes’ arms.
If someone is saying “I think people who had a ‘male’ puberty and then transitioned afterwards have an unfair advantage”, I think it’s better to meet them on their terms and listen to their arguments than to lump them in with the Rowlings who are crying about “wOmEnS sPaCeS” any time a trans woman dares exist.
Just to add one more thing: this is something that Janae Marie Kroc was hailed and respected for when she clapped back at Blaire White. At the end of the day, Kroc was like “I know I have had more of an advantage than most women. Even though hormone therapy does take away some of that, it doesn’t negate all of the physiological changes, which is why I don’t compete with women.” That was why White had to apologise to her.
In conclusion, no one ever said transitioning was simple and either side who makes it out to be is bogus. We need a lot more research into irreversible physiological changes as a result of puberty and how we can better help trans people as a whole.
I do not and here’s why:
For starters, I agree with your final point about things not being divided by gender anymore. Ut’s dumb and bad.
But the transphobes are wrong anyway, it’s so rare for transwomen to actually win anything, but we can’t just expect or force them not to win anything. Then really scrutinise their bodies when the same attention isn’t given to mens sports. It’s a weird double standard. I need to call out some misinformation too, Lia actually only won in one category of a whole competition, she isn’t smashing records or destroying the competition or dominating the opposition, she won one race.
I believe anyone has an issue with Lia Thomas winning should put the same energy into advocating for changing categories in sports generally. Like, if physiological stuff is that much of a concern then change the system because some cis men smash records and beat other men and dominate in their field but no one bats an eyelid unless they’re found to be on steroids.
And I don’t feel the need to concede this argument to transphobes.
I do agree with this, but I don’t think that is necessarily goes against what these people are saying, if that makes sense? I completely agree that trans people in general should be given more opportunities in all sectors, including sports. I also want to say that I think anyone claiming people will transition just to win contests is an idiot.
However, I don’t think “trans women rarely win anything” is a good argument against “this is unfair because…”. I think they’re tackling completely different issues. The first one is an issue of trans representation in sports whereas the second is an issue of cis women (along with some NB folk and trans men) being disadvantaged in general when it comes to any power-based sport. I don’t think the two should be conflated. I think they should be argued separately.
This, though, is absolutely true. I feel as though many of the people who are complaining wouldn’t bat an eyelid if a trans man who went through a “female transition” came out victorious in a flexibility-based sport even though “biological advantages” would absolutely apply just as much in this case.
However, I don’t think it gives us an excuse to ignore any legitimate concerns. In my mind, we should separate any arguments with the slightest bit of merit, scrutinise them and then throw the transphobe in the bin where they belong.
The argument that has a slight bit of merit is that sports in general just hasn’t adapted well enough to trans people becoming more visible. Sure, they have put in some notes about T levels and time since transition, but that kinda sucks, to be honest. It just doesn’t take in the nuances of transition. It disadvantages trans men on the other side of the spectrum, for example. Where is a newly-transitioned trans man supposed to compete if his T levels are too high for women’s sports and most men’s sports would be skewed against him?
I am someone who, to be honest, doesn’t really mind Lia Thomas winning. I understand why some people would be upset, but I think it’s not her fault. If you wanna come for something, come for the sports industry as a whole. Come for the fact that men get paid more in sports than women. Why is it only suddenly a women’s issue when trans women wanna join in? There are so many inherently unfair issues with sporting that need to be addressed. Issues like this could be addressed, sure, but not as the first and only issue.
You’re right when you say people overscrutinise trans women’s bodies, too. I can give you my essay on why that stupid logic prevailed. I did it at uni! I’m quite proud of it actually.
I also think that the people who tend to complain about this kinda thing don’t care about women’s sports unless trans women are competing. I, on the other hand, just think that gendered sports are archaic and completely negate the nuances of human bodies in general. We should abolish them in favour of a weight/height system.
Then, no one could hide transphobia behind women’s activism in sport. Like, “she’s in that category because she’s this weight and height.” That’s it. End of story.
However, I think we do look unreasonable if we don’t address these concerns and separate the wheat from the chaff, as it were.
Also, yeah, I saw some arguments going for the angle where they were like “she ruined the whole competition”. Dude. It was one race.
Another example being that girls who go straight from hormone blockers to hormones will be excluded from girls’ sports even though they don’t have a “biological advantage” just because it hasn’t been enough time since they transitioned?
That’s huge, since there are some sports that require you to start as early as possible to even be in for a chance of making it big
I think I do have a point here
We can only see how unfair it is if we get data which we can’t attain because of the complaints, trans women rarely winning is the only data we have.
Absolutely. I wonder how many competitions with trans women in them go under the radar because a trans girl didn’t win?
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