£25,000 is a lot of money to one university. To a whole government? It’s nothing so bribery lowers.
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But every county is different and has different population structures, not everywhere it is actually a problem, like there are counties where the population actually gets smaller (I think Russia is an example if I remember correctly) so it really isn’t a problem everywhere nor in all rich countries.
Mhh, maybe a system like the travel card would work. Or like that you have one chance to switch studies. Especially kids at 17/18 who already have to make life decisions, they should get like 1 chance to change their minds if it really doesn’t feel right instead of it having major financial issues right away. In that way I like the Dutch system a lot tbh, it’s a relatively small amount you have to pay each year so in the first year a switch is still relatively easy but gets harder after that cause you have more money that’s invested and you will lose.
Ohh, yeah, I can agree with that if education would be free, especially if it’s just in certain countries to prevent abuse.
Hmm, I don’t really see how that’s relevant to what I said tbh, but I’m not against funding at all I just think making it free isn’t ideal. I was saying that like it would lead to major costs for the government cause they still have to guarantee the quality of the education (lots of administrative costs) and fill up the gaps which students don’t pay anymore. We’re talking millions for each university.
I do like the idea of universities getting like bonuses/more funding for every student that has a good job they’ve studied for within a year.
I wouldn’t know the numbers on this tbh, you could be right, idk 
But I was more talking about like governments that are already on the edge of failing now. Like South European countries (Spain, Greece, Italy), I don’t think it would work there. It’s more of a feeling than actually argument but I just feel like more or less individual institutions are more capable of organizing education in countries than don’t have a very stable economy. Some of the Dutch liberal thoughts I grew up with might have influenced my feelings about this tho…
True, in that way corruption would be more visible. However governments might have like self-interest if they are financially responsible for universities and like preferences for certain universities, idk I kinda have a really negative image of governments in general so I don’t know how far that’s actually true, but all the bureaucracy make it invisible where exactly the money is going…
Why would they have to stop? I’m talking about adapting the plan for financing to what a specific university needs and works best there, not one national strict plan for all the universities.
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Hmm, yeah if I’m you explain it like that, but there could be universities more or less having deals with the government and that could be a problem, like I truly don’t believe governments are totally objective.
The thing is about the job market is that there always has to be a demand. And in order for there to be a demand? Some people who deserve jobs are going to have to miss out. Especially when we factor in poverty. People who have just finished university are likely to take jobs that they’re too skilled for, which takes them from people who have the correct skill level. There is never enough jobs for every person who finishes university. If there was, we could demand higher standards and more pay because we would be in demand.
The administrative costs on the government are never paid by the students, even now. The student fees are paid directly to the university, and they are used to pay salaries etc.
I’m proposing that universities go under the government so they are no longer for-profit organisations. This will significantly cut down costs and prevent power from concentrating with the people who own the university.
Also, administrative jobs would increase, which would increase taxes as more jobs are available.
Also, the standardisation is still needed now to ensure that students aren’t being scammed. Like, anyone could open up a building and claim it’s a university otherwise. That’s why governments are already involved in universities and their standards. I’m just proposing we increase and streamline these.
The thing is that in countries where governments are failing, businesses are more corrupt than stable government countries because they can get away with more since the government is failing. The universities in those countries will be prone to corruption either way, and it’s much easier to solve one problem than thousands of little problems.
There are very few people who can afford to bribe a whole government, and in a bureaucratic system, it’s much harder to hide corruption than you can when you know the people in charge or own the place yourself. Yes, corruption would probably be less visible, but that can be solved by forcing governments to release breakdowns of where their funds are going. Because we can hold them accountable. We don’t have power to hold an independent business accountable because what they do is their business, which increases inequality.
Every organisation has self-interest. The question is: do you want that self-interest to be a bunch of people who just want to line their pockets, or do you want that self-interest to come from people who might want to line their pockets, but also were voted by us and have us to answer for? I know which one I believe causes more issues.
We can pressure governments by changing the way we vote. We can’t pressure companies the same way.
The question is: in poorer areas, where’s the money going to come from? The people or the government? The people can’t afford to pay the fees. If we’re talking about local government, they get their funding directly from those poor people’s taxes, which isn’t very high. So if the national government doesn’t step in, how can they raise the standards to meet the richer areas?
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But that’s exactly what’s happening in certain sectors in the Netherlands and other countries, so still I don’t believe that’s actually an issue in every sector 
And again, in the Netherlands universities don’t make any profit since it’s a complicated system but they are kinda in control by the government but not at the same time. The only thing they make profit on here is foreign students if I remember correctly (and that’s a completely different story).
So I’m kinda proposing a Dutch system with a few changes that might evolve into a free system when there actually is sufficient money to do so is the best way to go 
it still cost a lot of money, in total the Dutch government spends 9.000.000.000 euros on academic education each year and biggest part is getting it down from like 15000 euros each year it would cost otherwise to only 2000 for students.
Like I don’t see anything wrong with people having to pay something for education since it does cost a lot of money and it’s a way to invest in yourself and your future. As long as we make sure there are enough options for kids with parent with less money with the loans/scholarships I only think it helps kids to be serious about it and think if they actually want it.
Lol, I guess that’s true, no matter what the education won’t be the best there (maybe I should reconsider putting Italy as my 2nd choice to study next year 
). But I don’t know how but I feel like there are ways in which there can be guaranteed good education at all times, but once again, this kinda is another discussion and doesn’t really have to do with education being free or not free. Just to make clear, I feel in every situation the government is end responsible for making sure there is good education, not necessarily by being in charge of universities but by having an influence on them.
Just one secretary of state is enough 
Like, that’s the reason I don’t trust government, since even if a judges forces like to give details they will black out all the important things in documents, like you would expect governments are at least somewhat more open than companies but it’s probably even harder to get certain figures from government than from companies. I mean if there is some social pressure there is a chance they might be open about it but it’s not in the nature of most governments so I don’t really believe that even in the best case it would be obvious where the money is exactly going.
Actually neither But yeah politicians sound a bit better in that case even though I’m not that positive about politicians in general, it are just some humans who make too important decisions and get too much money to do so 
I know that they are chosen ‘democratically’ but still, neither of them fully has pure intentions and they just like the power and I don’t believe such a function can ever be without selfishness. Lol, idk why but this reminds me that this conversation has really shown me how different England and the Netherlands are when it comes to education.
National government sounds fine, I mean as I said before I don’t see an issue with government being involved till quite an extent, but they should still be independent. Also not through the local government, since that’s just one extra step of extra bureaucracy so just direct from government to universities is the ideal in my opinion. And then a specific plan for each and every individual location. Takes a bit of time in the beginning but once that’s established specific plans are most effective and can prevent things like poverty on the longer term.
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I feel like the less the population, the easier it is to achieve free education. In Scotland, we have a teeny tiny population and the government can afford free healthcare, and 5 years free college per student. I don’t know of another country that has that.
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I’ll reply when I’m on my laptop xD
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Yeah, I agree with you. Italy is small too, we don’t have a free uni but I pay 300€ and it’s free for who can’t afford it. I feel like in bigger places like USA this can be more difficult.
Btw, completely unrelated, but how is the education system in Scotland? I heard some amazing things about your unis
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Y’all are so smart, I feel dumb. 
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A…BIG. YESSSSSSS
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I feel stupid as well, haha, like a discussion with Shannii isn’t easy since she’s so good at it and just knows a lot about everything
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How would you go about it? Making college free?
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It’s good to learn some new things too!
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With all this paying for books, etc. it’s very stressing and so why not let the college have these textbooks for us instead of buying it.
Make college feel like it’s for everyone to just come and learn, and of course the workers will be getting paid. Go on a tour of the college, get to know people, but I know it is going to be a bit tricky to imagine if college was going to be free. So my answer is maybe a yes and a no. hmmm I have a hard time explaining because I hate my speech/vocabulary and its hard for me to think…
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It is in france
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really?!
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Taxes go to paying for schools
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In the case of textbooks, I hear that they’re rarely used.
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Even better would be digital books. I’ve had that in high school partially and that was really nice
- You don’t have to carry heavy books
- You can access it whenever and wherever you want from whichever device
- It’s way better for the environment
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Exactly!!