First things first, this thread may have mentions of homophobia/transphobia and general bigotry so proceed with caution if this affects you
If there’s already a thread on this topic which is still open then I can’t find it, but of course if there is then I’ll happily merge.
The reason I want to make a new thread on this is because of subjects like the “Don’t Say Gay” bill in Florida. Obviously I disagree with that bill, I don’t think there should be a restriction on bringing up gender and sexual orientation to children because it’s not like straight people are restricted at all in doing so. Plus I remember in school we were literally only ever taught about the “nuclear family” and the concept of different family dynamics including single parents, but we were never taught about the concept of a family with LGBTQ+ people. Even though there easily could have been kids in the room with LGBTQ+ parents or they may have known other kids with those parents, the experience can be quite alienating and surely it’s better to make all family dynamics seem normal and not just the “traditional” ones?
Now, the bill as pointed out by this article is deliberately broad, heterosexuality is a sexual orientation and everybody has pronouns but clearly the bill is aimed very specifically at people who’s pronouns may not allign with those assigned at birth. In particular trans teachers.
It’s very clear that this law will not affect cis straight people because it gives the power to parents to seek legal action if they find out their child has been told anything LGBTQ+ or if they feel in some way their little Timmy has been “exposed” to something they don’t like. Yet of course…let’s be real and honest here…straight people bringing up their partners isn’t going to result in legal action for them. Being taught those “traditional” family dynamics I brought up also isn’t going to result in problems let’s be real. But the bill is broad enough that these things could also be reported but let’s be honest here, they won’t be.
And no, I don’t think any teacher should go into detail about their lives with kids, most of them don’t anyway, this law was never about that though. This is more about teachers who request students to use specific pronouns with them let’s be honest.
There is nothing good that can come from this bill and personally I think that LGBTQ+ stuff should come up just as much in schools as cis straight stuff does. LGBTQ+ has a very rich history but since the Don’t Say Gay bill only affects younger grades from the looks of things, I don’t think they’d go into that much detail about any history though perhaps they should, that can be discussed here.
Anyway I don’t want the OP to be too long so feel free to ask me to elaborate on anything and if you want to add any information then do so in the replies
What do you all think of the “Don’t Say Gay” bill and why?
What sort of LGBTQ+ do you think should be taught in schools and what ages do you think it should be taught?
Is there any LGBTQ+ topic aside from NSFW stuff that you feel is “inappropiate” for children to know?
I hate all the stuff that’s happening in education right now (in the US) it’s so stupid.
In my state, people have passed laws to get DEI programs banned (diversity, equity and inclusions programs that essentially give professors training) to make them not mandatory. This is because conservative students apparently feel as though they are being restricted and professors are too opinionated, and that they don’t have a voice.
I really don’t see how the DEI programs have anything to do with biased professors. If anything, those programs should help against bias. It’s all just an excuse to get rid of these programs.
So many books are getting banned, children’s books that should have no reason being banned.
And the pronoun thing… When I become a teacher there will probably be students who choose to go by different names or pronouns as they are navigating their identity. I want to go by whatever they choose to identify as. But if a parent doesn’t know or is transphobic or against the idea of pronouns?
It’s all just a mess and I hate it. They’re doing all this when we have so much fun violence that is never getting solved. They’d rather ban drag queens than guns.
Yeah when they don’t even hide the fact that they really want children to not be taught about diversity it’s a problem. They should not be comfortable saying the quiet part loud, it’s an absolutely shameful thing to not want your kids to learn anything about the world around them and restrict important aspects of identity.
okay let me preface this by saying that i’m not from or living in the US, so none of my experience with this is first hand
(also it’s kinda crazy to think that my third world country currently has a more progressive outlook on these things than the freaking US)
i think it’s violent, oppressive and a load of bull
kids not being taught about queer issues in school will not stop kids from being queer somehow, the government may act like the words don’t (or shouldn’t) exist, but that won’t stop the people from existing
the only thing that would change with this is that now more kids will grow up feeling wrong with themselves in one way or another, it will make more people miserable (i’m saying this as someone who grew up in a very overprotective religious environment and who was taught that “gay” was a bad word up to age 13, i’ve been through that, no one should)
it’s extremely violent because they’re acting like queer people should not exist, and they’re expressing that with their language choices, they’re actively trying to erase us which… will not happen, it will only cause more oppression
i think kids can be taught about both people having partners of any gender and about gender identity in primary school, it doesn’t have to be very in depth? just mention that yeah, other options exist, queer people exist
not that i can think of
agreed
you ask the kid about what they want to be addressed as in front of their parents
you act according to that
(also being “against the idea of pronouns” is so funny to me, imagine being against “the idea” of a part of language lmao)
I agree with you, but it’s not that simple. Especially if the student is trans and the parents are transphobic. They may go by different pronouns in private, such as at school with their friends than their own parents.
yeah that’s… that’s why i specified “in front of their parents”
i’m talking to you as both a trans person and someone who has worked with children (sports trainer)
if the parents don’t know / can’t know… that’s why you ask the kid
I mean if they’re a teen they’re probably gonna go by the pronouns their parents want to them to go by. They’d feel pressured to do so with their parents in front of them.
and thats the measure that keeps them safe so you go through with it
it’s sucky but sometimes it’s necessary to misgender or deadname a person to keep them safe, otherwise, you’d be outing the kid which is a really sh-tty thing to do
Yeah I mean if their parents were using certain pronouns I’d use those in front of them as well.
I think trans people are the most in danger here in the US. There are a lot of states banning gender affirming care for minors. There may even be some trying to or making laws about teachers not being allowed to use nicknames or pronouns the student goes by.
If that actually becomes a law when I’m a teacher I’m just gonna ignore it if I’m not around people who would report me for it.
There are probably things about minors “cross-dressing” as well. God are we going back to the 1950’s? Oh it’s horrifying! Someone wearing an outfit that doesn’t align with gender norms!!! Ahhhh!!!
I completely agree with this. I just came out today, and my aunt used she\her because I’m not out to my parents. Either that, or she completely forgot the pronouns I’d asked to go by…oh well.
Just…it’s completely unnecessary. If someone is too afraid to come out or whatever due to this, mental health can take a nosedive.
I’d say pronouns, gender and sexuality. I’d say it should be taught along with sex Ed, starting in about sixth grade.
No, not that I can think of.
I think that in terms of what can be taught, I don’t see a problem with incorporating LGBTQ+ history in with regular history lessons, I also propose this:
In primary school we had PSHE, it was kinda a special class to talk about feelings and empathy, plus the world around us. In high school this was called “citizenship” and I hate that name and the fact it attempted to teach me patriotism, but it was the same thing mostly.
I think once a week, having a class about something that isn’t going to be graded is a good idea and LGBTQ+ stuff can be incorporated into that. If people don’t want to listen then you can look for ways to engage them, if they’re homophobic you can talk to them. You can even allow people to leave the room when necessary. But a weekly discussion style class just sounds like a good idea. I want to see it executed better than my school could.
The thing is, Britain already tried this with Section 28. It didn’t work. All it did was make young gay people less safe because they didn’t know what options they had for safe intimacy (to prevent STDs but also to make sure that it’s comfortable and doesn’t hurt). Plus, it was cruel and meant that people were more likely to learn about homosexuality in less safe, unhealthy ways. We’ve already proved this crap doesn’t work. I hate that we’re backsliding with people’s rights
My reasoning for this being that I understand discussions talking about homophobia can be triggering for people, so they should be able to protect themselves. But the discussions need to happen, even if it doesn’t change anybodies minds, making people think is never a bad thing.
Of course in Primary school you can keep it at a basic understanding of not hating people just because their love may look different to the love they’ve grown up around. Not in depth discussions.
I think it’s complete bull. Queer people exist. We always have, we always will. No matter how much conservatives want us to stop existing and are trying to oppress us into that, we won’t. There’s a lot to be said about their beliefs about sexuality and gender identity being a choice and how for a few it even stems from their own experiences of being forced into an allocishet life, but for the most part… it’s just plain hatefulness from allocishet people being taken out in the most violent way possible. No matter what conservatives like to delude themselves into thinking, being told about queer topics isn’t what “turns” kids queer. If that was the case, why don’t they just show them more allocishet stuff to “turn” them back?
Like @Cam said, the only thing that will come of this will be more and more kids feeling like their very existence is wrong; they’ll either grow up hating themselves, forcing themselves to be something they’re not, or just resenting society. In all ways, detrimental to their mental health.
I’m speaking as someone from an extremely queerphobic third-world country, whose first exposures to queer stuff were through fandom and a girl in my school (one year above me) being forcefully outed via gossip and ostracized terribly, alongside… religious education about the existence of gay and trans people. All of this was in my early adolescence, all of this served to give me some beliefs at first. But, probably since I’m queer myself, it was moreso just “this is weird” than “this is wrong”. That doesn’t change that I wasn’t super open to it, though, and it’s the same for many others. Being told that something is wrong or having it treated as a taboo is obviously going to have that effect on them, and then when they realize they are what they’ve been taught to hate… y’know.
I don’t think it needs to be taught so much as represented. Just neutral mentions of it are fine, just as how we’re not explicitly taught about allocishet topics and they’re just mentioned as part of various texts. It should just be an ordinary part of life, like anything else.
Not that I can think of
SAME
What’s next, are you going to be against verbs? Conjunctions? *gasps* Prepositions?!
They probably know that really, unless they’re stupid which…If the shoe fits
But like, part of me thinks they don’t want their kids to know this stuff because they know it’s actually the correct information and if it came to it, they wouldn’t be able to argue against it. I’m probably wrong but I’m right that they wouldn’t be able to argue against proper information.
though perhaps they should, that can be discussed here.