Discussion: Women's quota

Also patriarchy meanings

a system of society or government in which the father or eldest male is head of the family and descent is reckoned through the male line.

a system of society or government in which men hold the power and women are largely excluded from it.

I don’t see how any of this is applicable to USA or Europe.

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Nearly every country in the world has had a female leader at one point.

Excluding the USA. There’s never been a female president.

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A good idea, bur ultimately not helpful I think. I prefer targets, rather than quotas as I think quotas are a bit too rigid and can work against the intended benefactor.

The reasons it’s a good idea:

  1. Unconscious bias is a thing. Men currently hold more positions of power in companies (only 8% of top leadership positions are held by women worldwide), and unfortunately, as humans, tend to make many small decisions very quickly about who they’d like to see in the role they are hiring for, and often unconsciously or not, it tends to be someone they can see themselves in, another dude (typically white, but racial biases are a whole other fun thing).
  2. Being the “only” sucks. Like when you’re the only woman or the only minority, there’s objectively more pressure on you to perform. This initiative could help prevent more woman from being the “only” at their workplace.
    image https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/how_it_works.png

The reasons it doesn’t mean much:

  1. Companies can still be 30% women and be unequal because it depends what level of power those women are at. For example, Cookie’s teacher and nurse examples. Teachers and nurses tend to be female while people in positions of power (principals and doctors) tend to be male. Just making the hospital and school 30% female does nothing to address that power imbalance.
  2. It gives men an excuse to think their female colleagues were only hired because of the quota, even if they were hired on skill. Women will again have to work harder to prove themselves after they get the job.

As a woman who has worked in both traditionally female and traditionally male fields (education and tech, respectively), I think that these conversations are great to start thinking about things and getting people to examine their implicit biases, but ultimately don’t think quotas are the way to go.

If you’re interested in finding out your biases, try this test: https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/takeatest.html

And the gender one specifically:
https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/Study?tid=-1

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By this example USA is the most sexist and patriarchal society in the world? We both know it’s not the case. So it doesn’t define the patriarchy. This is a very specific example, that can’t be said in the context, like it’s proving the absolute patriarchy. You have to look at specific candidates, how they were representing themselves. And Hillary did awful at the election.

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Lol, it’s funny but I witnessed quite the opposite. At least in these fields. And I can only speak for my country, but still. Every principal I ever had was female, also around half of the high positions in medicine are occupied by women. They own a lot of private clinics too. Figures :woman_shrugging: And we were at the USSR just 30 years ago. My boss, company owner, is a female. She’s tough a*s bish.

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Saying “the most” is a little… Well, the most is- I don’t think that’s possible. America has a lot of problems but it’s not the most sexist country in the world. Every country has some type of patriarchy and/or sexism.

I agree with this statement.

And yes, Hillary wasn’t that great at the election. I never wanted her as president anyways

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And we found a common ground xD At least ^^

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I just don’t appreciate people who say terrible things about child soldiers and stick by their cheating husbands. Lol. Just facts!

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Fair enough. Her smile creeps me out xD Like she wants to molest me xD

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Interesting. I started looking to see if that was a trend in former USSR countries and didn’t find exactly what I was looking for, but stumbled across a lot of statistics that show Russia is actually a leader (compared to the EU), for female leadership and women in tech.

Out of nowhere fact I found funny and sad:

UNITED STATES

There Are Fewer Women in Leadership Positions Than There Are Men Named John reference
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This is weird. Because Russian people are so new to the whole feminists concept, and there are actually laws that work against women in cases of domestic violence. On the other hand it’s a highly corrupted country so maybe that’s why.

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The article title! :joy:

Kinda sad though.

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This isn’t just instincts though, it’s also inadequate childcare solutions (daycare in NYC is $3000+ a month and you have to pick up the kid by 6pm, pretty early to leave the office for women trying to prove themselves). I think if more jobs were more flexible about childcare and childcare was affordable, fewer women might leave the workforce or slow down. Because while many positions of power require more hours and more work, there are plenty of executive positions that are flat out easier than working as an underling. I saw many men in my former company do nothing but delegate (to people they didn’t even manage) and keep their insanely high salaries.

The second article was really interesting about Tech and STEM. I mean, Science was a huge push nationally during the USSR, so maybe that helped. Also the article poses the idea that maybe Russian women are really into proving people wrong so they worked harder to do it haha.

And in my opinion, it’s not a feminist issue, it’s important for dudes too. They should be able to have rights to care for their children, get time off to raise them when they’re born with paid paternity leave, and gain the value of working with people different from themselves.

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Okay. If that’s the reason. Why it’s exactly the same here with free kindergarden, laws that forbid to fire the pregnant woman, and with their right to get back to the same spot after maternity leave, which can be 1.5 years long?

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We have free kindergarten but that begins at age 5, not birth.

I tried to find some stats because I’m a numbers gal, so I saw this that says women in Latvia can be paid up to 140 days for maternity leave, which is a great start but not enough. Wait, cross that, found another source! One and a half years is great!

So it looks like Latvia is not the same as the rest of Europe when it comes to employing women. So you may be observing the “settling down effect“ but it might not be representative of the entire country and trends.

From the article:
It has been hypothesized that there is a correlation between the amount of maternity leave available in a country and the number of women who take up leadership roles, whether in business or politics.

When observing Latvia’s flexible family leave policies in tandem with the percentage of women on boards, this hypothesis seems to be supported. The average percentage of women on boards in Europe is 18%, while Latvia’s female representation on boards is 29%.

Latvia has the highest rate of natural women’s participation in leadership positions. Though some countries have higher rates, such as Iceland with 48% female representation on boards and Norway with 42%, these rates are artificially achieved, as they have implemented gender quotas. Latvia’s are the highest naturally occurring. Iceland’s longest period of partially paid family leave is 17 months, while Norway’s is 10 weeks. It is clear that, as a minimum, Latvia’s higher amount of paid family leave has not decreased the rate of women’s participation in leadership positions.

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This is interesting :thinking:

I now wonder how divorce rates correlate with women being in positions of power.

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Has anyone taken the bias test? I got a surprising result and I am moderately biased, not lightly!!!

Hers the link again: https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/Study?tid=-1

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This test is trash honestly xD I know what they tried to do, like unconscious bias and stuff, but it just consfusing the brain. I for example keep forgetting where should I press, it’s not my unconsciousness working. Just test keep switching buttons and I mess up.

look at it xD
image
they want to tell I’m in a 5% with my slightly conservative views? Riight xD

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Oh, I found it much easier when I had to press the left/right when male & careers were together versus the female & careers were together. I didn’t like it, but it was my association and not just forgetting where to press for me at least.

Your view wouldn’t be what I’d call conservative because I associate conservative with Male = Career and Female = Family, so if anything your view is progressive since you associated Male with Family (but may be a function of how you didn’t find the test to be accurate).

Most people have an automatic bias (like me) with the conservative way even if they are liberal in what they say.

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I don’t associate. I really do associate male with career way more, and family with female. That’s why I said test is bad.

I tried more tests and it’s all the same. It says the exact opposite I actually am. And I picked a religious test, where I have a clear bias and can admit it so.

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