These aren’t opinions Japanese people at large share, I’d like to point out
Tone policing is not commenting on someone’s tone and you know it. I have in no way told you to stop talking the way you are (the POLICING side of tone policing). I’m just unsure about why it seems as though you are arguing I’m saying something against you.
And I’m saying people in and out of Japan have said it isn’t that big a deal.
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Right. I should’ve noticed a red flag when I bought it from a white lady, who shouldn’t have had it in the first place. The reason I’m p*ssed is that it’s not even a real kimono. RhT makes things way worse.
You aren’t, I already said you clearly have the faculties to discuss this, and a lot of what you said is entirely correct and fair. I do think people buying from kimono manufacturers who are passionate and interested in the history is a good thing.
I also just want to be very clear that people here do not actually understand what a kimono is and have made it a culture war front based on nothing
Yes, Japanese people at large are very happy that people are interested in their culture.
A lot of the appropriation debate comes from Black Americans, who have a very painful history of white people grabbing something they have thought of and saying “look what I just invented”. There is a great deal of projection there.
Oh I see now, nvm, I shouldn’t have commented here. This is a white guilt thread. God this place sucks
Who is making it a white guilt thread? I’m a little confused.
Manufacturers are not the same as sellers. It’s not necessarily a red flag that a white lady sold it. She might have connections in Japan!
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It’s doubtful, but I do see your point. I’m just getting very confused as to what’s happening here. I didn’t mean for this to get so out of control.
I think the giveaway is always whether the purpose of the cultural item is completely turned on its head. My examples will always be from the cultures I am actively a part of, so let me explain.
If people were to make white supremacist reggae music? That would be antithetical to why reggae exists: as a form of protest against British colonisation of the Caribbean. You just have to hear the lyrics of Bob Marley to know that. That would be appropriation, as it is clear that they are not taking into consideration the history and significance of that part of Caribbean culture (or they want to warp it). They’re just shoehorning their own agenda into the aesthetic of Reggae.
Using Reggae music to protest other forms of injustice? Absolutely not appropriation, provided that you respect the roots of the music and pay homage to them.
That’s why it’s usually done right by the people in the culture. They’ve been raised in that particular culture. The significance of it is built into their upbringing.
Although, knowing white and Chinese Jamaicans myself, it would be extremely racist to assume someone isn’t part of a culture based on the colour of their skin
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What’s happening here is people not understanding what a kimono is, what they’re used for, the many different ways you can wear them, the different patterns and what all those patterns represent and fact that the general consesus on them is that they can be worn by anyone inside or outside Japan, because it represents their culture whether the person wearing that knows it or not.
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The operative word here ^
As someone who studied the ideology of Lenin in my final year of my M.A., I probably know a lot more about it than most Russians. I know how Hegel influenced his interpretation of the Communist manifesto, etc. If I were to talk about him (not that I care to. I’m not a Tankie), I’d know more, despite not being Russian.
It just takes a lot of education to get it right
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Right. I’m just slower than usual today, which is saying a lot
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I do want to add: I’ve been on the other side of this. I’ve had scathing debates with African Americans who make sweeping assumptions about how the history of colonisation has impacted the way black people outside of the US act/are treated. In particular, there is this dismissive attitude towards the struggles of, say Black British people and how we interact with the white people around us.
When African Americans started saying “white people can’t say fam. They don’t know the black history behind it”, it makes me angry. “Fam” is something that Black British people have been sharing with other working class people for literal decades, but now it’s a problem? I dunno who invented the word “fam”, but segregation isn’t an extreme aspect of the racial injustice Black British people faced recently. Not like America. We dealt with things like deportation, instead. The struggle was much more across class lines, though racism did still exist a LOT. It just wasn’t as intrenched in the makeup of society.
So, we tended to blend our culture with the dominant working-class culture because it represented who we were the most. people need to learn the history before they claim “appropriation” on everything
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My entire point of this was simply it seems to be a rather bastardized version of the kimono, and that it would be much better to buy an authentic one from an authentic japanese retailer or designer which would seem more appropriate. And to also wear it with respect as there has also been a trend of sexualising kimonos out of fetshization and do research on it and in addition make sure your wearing it with appreciation and respect so yeah go crazy ig
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I agree that fetishisation of Asian people is a big problem. It’s a HUGE one in right-wing circles, for some reason
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Yeah I could explain it from like a US historical view but that would take a while to type it up on my phone but its definitely not a coincidence that at least in the us a lot of east asian fetshization has a strong base in right wing aligned spectrum
Yada yada, bellcurve crap, misunderstanding how racism affects Asians differently, Japan’s relationship with the nazis, Japan and South Korea being able to become economic powerhouses, East Asia having a different relationship with colonialism, etc
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I do feel somewhat awkward when people say it, but that’s just because I like proper grammar.